As a conservative, recruiting minorities sounds really close to affirmative action and to lowering standards just to get meet quotas. Recruiting minorities is code for racism to many conservatives.

However, I'm also pragmatic. I recognize that organiations can have real knowledge gaps when they are not appropriately diverse and that marketing jobs in such a way as to correct the deficit is acceptable. Changing the standards, however, is not acceptable.

I first heard about this on Fox News Channel's commentary show "The Five". The Five commentators all condemned the effort.

However, I disagree with their assessment. A diverse SEAL force is a strategic advantage that the Navy currently lacks. One of the best ways to go unnoticed in an area is to look like the people in the area. Diversity in the ranks of the SEALs could allow the navy to deploy teams that are able to remain more covert than if the force is undiversified. Simply targetting marketing efforts to those minorities that the Navy needs to see more of in the SEALs does not constitute racism and it does not materially harm anyone. It is simply a strategic effort, no more and no less.

Market to the groups you need. Recruit a pool. Send them through the same training/screening as everyone else. Make them meet the same standards as everyone else. Find the same quality that you expect from everyone in each would be SEAL. This is acceptable. The only thing that should change for the minorities in the US is the kind of Navy marketing that they see and the amount that they see.

The Navy has a strategic interest in marketing to and recruiting more minorities. So long as that is all they do, then there is not issue; they're simply being smart.



Don't get me wrong, if you don't have a strategic interest to do so, then even simply placing your marketing to minorities at the expense of others is racist. Demographic target marketing is okay if it's balanced based upon your customers.

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/...-a-darker-shade-of-seals/

I will never understand the desire of people to take something that is nither a big deal, nor effects them, and turn it into a massive ordeal.

Stop it please.

Says the person with a Zombie Invasion Escape plan.

Recruit Zombies

Having more minorities is not going to make a seal team blend in anywhere. Remember, Seals are not CIA. They are not meant to blend in. They are meant to be ass kickers. Do you think having 4 heavily armed men in Africa is going to make them blend in because now 2 are white, one is mex, and one black? I don't think so. A seal stands out anywhere they go. If your aim is to blend in it will not work.

Personally, i view the military not as a right to work program but as a get the best possible ass kickers and let them do their job. Leave politics at home.

I'm with DH, I don't think SEALs are working their tradecraft on the streets of Mumbai or something. These are folks who need steal to get in, but then their methodologies often involve overwhelming force. I really don't care what race they are. So long as they're the best of the best crop we can get.

WTF are you gguys talking about. You have no idea what the mission statement of the SEALs are do you? Have you even realize that a SEAL team is not made entirely of SEALS? or the fact that you will find them working with Recons, Rangers, etc... In fact, most people working in a command like MARSOC that I am familiar with have have very little operators compared to support. This is not the movies guys.

and their methods are never about overwhelming force. Any special operations team is never going to use overwhelming force. SMH.

fox has this habit of making a big deal out of small issues and blowing them out of proportion...

Poor choice of words on my part. They're not spies. They're sent in for very specific missions to acheive very specific outcomes.

However, when exiting dangerous situations they believe in the tactical advantage of demonstrating force. Sometimes it means providing the allusion of overwhelming force and sometimes it means continuing streams of suppresive fire.

The only one I know spends most of his time training and sitting around, at least that I know of.

Well now there is no such thing as to much preparedness.

hey man ive already started running more. i refuse to be the slowest one during said invasion

they dont carry that much ammo really. 4k rounds is probly normal per squad. so long suppresive fire is simply not going to happen with them. immediately gaining fire superiority and fading away is the prefered method

Look guys, stop thinking the real thing is anything like the movies. It's not even close.

First of all, if anything any special ops team would want to exit in dead silence or at least quieter than the entrance. When their entrance is supposed to be unnoticed, you should know what an exit should be like.

Second, gaining firepower superiority is not a special ops objective. It wastes ammo. These guys are trained for accuracy, not be Rambo. Their goal is literally one shot one kill.

4k rounds per squad is probably overkill. A special teams will most likely go against a whole regiment or division. Considering how far they have to travel and how long they have to wait for the right moment. In battle, accuracy > firepower always!

There's no squad either. Squads are for regular infantry made up of roughly 16 men or 4 fireteams with 4 members per fire team.

It is NOTHING like what you know and you will never know unless you're in it. The fact that you guys are discussing this here means that none of you knows nothing about it.

If any of you know anything about this someone would already mentioned the 5 paragraph order. Which btw is not 5 paragraph. The last one i wrote was a basic patrol route and it was 16 pages long.

Just enjoy the movies guys. Mission impossible or acts of valor are good movies but they are not real and they will never show you the real deal unless you have the balls to join the military and you are hard enough get selected/recommended for it.

If any of you say that your recruiter promised you recon or seal or ranger whatever....you're either full of fluff or your recruiter is full of fluff.

I make no comment on what SEALs do or how they perform their duties. I merely wished to comment on what I saw as being the wrong reaction to the Navy's attempt to recruit more minority Navy SEALs. Recruiting really just means marketing and marketing is indeed a method to increase diversity of workforce without compromising quality.

A recruiter that says that by joining the Navy/Army you could pursue becoming a SEAL/Ranger is not full of fluff. Joining the military is to my knowledge a prerequisite to pursuit of SEAL/Ranger training. By getting more minorities interested in pursuing those goals, a recruiter can increase diversity among the ranks of the SEALs/Rangers. The pool of minority SEALs/Rangers come from the minorities in the Navy/Army.

the fire power has noting to do with using minorities. That is the point- you guys are getting off topic. The point is that being a minority is not going to mean squat difference. They are not SCI. Seals do not spy- they complete missions. Weather balck, white, or mext, or asian- it does not matter- we should just use the absolute best and not lower any standards. When we lower standards they are no longer seals. They become walruses.

Actually, unless fluff has changed quickly gaining fire superiority through accurate and devastating fire is an objective under fire, especially ambush, and is something they regularly practice. No I'm not in the teams but the number of autobiographies, documentaries tent to portray this. Now maybe fluff has changed since these books were written and obviously the documentaries won't tell you everything, but your last post was aarogant as fluff and kinda pissed me off with you assuming what I do or do not know

So with that said tudong, go fluff yourself

sorry but recruiters recruit. That's it. They have nothing to do with your potential to join any special forces. I guess you can say they get you through the first step but you don't need to even go to the recruiter to join the military. You can just sign up online, you'll have to go to the recruiter office to sign paperwork and wait for your time to ship out. A recruiter just have you to do tests like drug tests and asvab and sign off on your paperwork. That's his main job, the recruiting part, they usually have to only get 1 or 2 in per month.

I wouldn't even say recruiters get your foot in the door. Special forces don't "recruit anybody". That's not how it works and please stop guessing.

There are plenty of minorities in the military. There are two that i know of that are still a little lopsided. The coast guard and the marine corps. Black people just don't like swimming so coast guard is out. The marine corps is primarily white also but starting to have more diversity. The thing about the marine corps is that you need to have a little more balls and usually people who gets that extra courage tends to be more patriotic or thinking they're a badass. There are a lot of people that are "losers" in school and they want to become "hard" so they joined. Hence those are why you see a majority of white people. Not saying there's no patriotic black or latin or asians. It's just probability and since this was originally a white man's country.

actually the US has a 12.2% black population and the marines have a 13% black population...... Seems pretty parallel to me....


Once again your aarogance pisses me off so I'm going to bust your chops this entire thread


http://www.usmc-mccs.org/...20Update%20Dec%202011.pdf

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...hics_of_the_United_States

accurate and devastating power? that doesn't make sense
accurate means that you only need one shot for one kill. It doesn't need to and never will be devastating. How many people are in a team? 200? how could they have that? What? they all drive tanks lmao? HMMWV, 7 tons with 50 cal turrets? NO! you're still wrong. Special forces had never used and never will use superior firepower! that is in the movies!
Regular infantry use that method. Suppressive fire lol! i only hear that in the movies. Usually, only certain battalions have that capability. A smart fire team leader or squad leader can outmaneuver enemies to create crossfires that feels/seem "overwhelming". Normally, most battles, we are out manned and out gunned.

this is the us census bureau numbers 13.6
http://www.census.gov/...l_editions/cb11ff_01.html

black pop in USMC is only 10%

http://www.nctimes.com/...82-b33b-41185edfe30e.html

get your fact straight

even your link says black % in USMC is 10.1%

what are you? stupid?

and the wiki link is outdated.

what are you? stupid?

Stupid? No color blind? Maybe. The point still remains. That's much more parallel than you seem to be portraying.


As I said a few posts ago, go fluff yourself cool guy.

Dude, a seals first live fire team drill is based in ambush breaking, with accurate and well choreographed team work. Accurate and devestatimg fire means you don't have to fire as many bullets as your foe, but more on target, hense the phrase. Quickly gain fire superiority soot can maneuver out of the ambush. Quit being an idiot, you know exactly what I'm talking about. No one said that they sit there and fire till the run out of bullets.

Fire superiority does not mean you fire more bullets than the enemy, and that basic misunderstanding my my statment apparently speaks volumes of your knowlage.

lol? so you proved yourself stupid and all you can say is go fluff yourself? lmao

mrford = sore loser

no hard feelings bro. I know what i know for a reason.

Oh and your one shot one kill is a sniper montra, not a seal mortar. They utilize the short burst, not single shot......

What are you, stupid?

That's the point, you don't really know anything, you just seem to think you do. I misread a graph, my bad, you are still being aarogant and factually incorrect.

my basic misunderstanding of your statement means you don't know wtf you're saying and you're using the wrong words.

haha and you cannot just gain fire superiority so you can outmaneuver out of the ambush.

You know what mrford, go join the military and get into infantry. Get some formal training and you'll know how to turn an ambush around.

Do you even realize that an ambush means the enemy already has advantage in firepower, position, numbers, terrain, etc... basically everything. The only thing they don't know you have is your training. LMAO you're a joke. STFU and grow some balls to find out the real deal before you talk.

Thanks for proving my point.

You are right, it is 100% impossible to gain fire superiority while in an ambush and maneuver out of it, what am I thinking. Please teach me more you aarogant prick. I'm guessing you are a cook in the army?

Ambushes do not always have supeorior numbers, infact in Nam a seal team often ambushed much larger groups of enemy and put down SUPEORIORAND ACCUrATE firepower and won the fight. But wait, seals never put down superior firepower. Shut, you might wanna call Harry Constance and tell him he's full of fluff. Let me know how that goes.


When caught in an ambush you attempt to gain fire superiority and maneuver. usually back out the way you came in if possible because a wall laid ambush will Have other exits blocked and a pincer move to the rear unless you can counter it. That's pretty basic.

Once you get the fluff off your high horse maybe we can have a discussion, but I don't see that happening. He'll you probably went even in the service lol, just a internet cool guy.

wow way to take things out of context. I said they literally want to get one shot one kill as their goal. Are you stupid? And the one shot one kill motto came from the marine corps. Originally snipers but everyone is trained with single shot accuracy now. There are no bursts in any of the rifle qualifications. I've seen very little burst used in any training. I still prefer single shots even for house clearing. Unless i'm the machine gunner.

LMAO! no SEALS do not use burst most of the time. I'm pretty sure it's pretty spread out what they use depending on situations but single shots are most preferred to conserve ammo and probably will eventually save your life when you have to reload. You can't get any statistics or account any of that because every operator pretty much gets a blank check when it comes to weapons and armor along with customizations.

lmao ok like anybody will 2 brain cells will believe that they would send a seal team in nam just to take down groups of enemies.

Yes it is 100% impossible to gain fire superiority. That is not the right word btw. The ambusher knows everything about you! if they don't think they can win then they wouldn't ambush you lol. Duh! Unless it's a complete retard like you then you deserve to get overrun anyways for being dumb lmao.
You still have no idea how to break out of an ambush.

If some former SEAL writes a book or do a film, it doesn't mean he's telling you 100% reality. Most often, it gets edited for sales. But the important thing is he/she is not allowed to pass on those kinds of information. It is against the law.
You take something that is pure marketing and believing it lmao.

i will never confirm or deny if i was in the service and whatever i was doing. But i'm just telling you you're full of fluff so other people can stop believing this BS Fox network puts up and contaminations from trolls like you

I do believe them when it comes to work out routines/programs though :)

MrFord is full of fluff and this discussion is over. I'm sure anyone with even the tiniest knowledge in military strategy will know exactly what i'm talking about. Even some lowly NCO that's just a noob fire team leader can confirm what I said.

Nuff said. Discussion over!

Are you kidding me? There were atleast 2 teams in nam the entire war. They were used in hunter killer missions, pilot rescue missions, and given general free fire zones where they could do whatever they wanted and usually went on ambush patrols. This is fact. Period. You can not ague that it's public record. So I guess that there are a lot of 2 brain cell ppl out there? Nam is the first time the Teams were really developed from UDT that was created in WWII. Infact, the seals were founded by JFK just before nam escalated. It's where the teams tactics were first honed and tested.

Towards the end of the war they were used in a teaching role, but during the meat of the war they were used like I previously stated. Fact.

Your rampant use of personal insults shows me the lack of confidence you have in your own argument, and the clear superior intelligence you have.

do you really believe they sent SEALS to a warzone and give them a general free fire zone where they could do whatever they want. That's ludicrous and only retards will ever believe that.
Why don't you somehow get yourself a TS clearance and work for an actual combat command anywhere in the DoD for a few years before you talk to me. This is a complete waste of time trying to even talk common sense to you. You're either really stupid or just got your butt hurt cause i kept proving you wrong.

It's funny because you think you are right lol.

Google the Rung Sat Special Zone and the teams. It's public record now dude with dozens of not only autobiographies but reports and documents. These areas are where the teams cut their teeth and developed their gorilla tatics to counter the VC. It was called a free fire zone for a reason and the platoons stationed there regularly went out on patrols and ambush missions to disrupt VC activity in the area. They were based there for tours. This is fact. Your insults and arrogant nature can not refute this just because you think you know what you are talking about.

He'll, Constance's platoon was stuck in a hotel during Tet in danger of being overrun when they organized the defense of said hotel and inadvertently the town, it was one of the few towns not overrun. As I said, public record dude, you don't need a security clearance, which by the way I actually do have through my job with Boeing.... Not that I access military deployment files or can, but just thought you should know.

What kind of insults are you going to throw this time?

yes ford, you know everything lol. Public records must be 100% correct and history books are all truths lmao.

Solid rebuttal, how long did it take you to come with that argument? Was it when you realized you have no idea what you are talking about and could no longer act like you do when you were proven wrong?

The first mistake was watching Fox News

Stop watching Fox News. I'm saving your life here. :) Anyway...As for the post topic:

While it is true they are "not CIA," they are used (along with other special forces units) internationally to assist in the quick and quiet arrest of war criminals, including HVTs inside countries we are publicly involved in, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as countries we're not publicly in. They accomplish the same tasks by forming specific teams depending on the mission profile. Sometimes forming these teams means selecting certain physical traits, such as skin color, hair type and height/weight. The US military is doing nothing wrong by "profiling" IMO. It's all about mission accomplishment. However, whatever tactical advantage they were attempting to gain has been outed by the brilliant fair and balanced minds at Fox News. Jackasses.

And for the off topic argument:

SEALs perform a variety of missions. Assault missions ARE included. They in fact train extensively for "behind the lines" operations where they ambush, sabotage and psychologically attack in various ways. Imagine being able to blend in with the locals for this. The value is enormous.

I have operated and trained with SEALs while I was in the US Marines and I can tell you a few things here:

I never knew a unit that used three round burst. It has a tendency to jam most NATO and Soviet made weapons resulting in a downed weapon. Nobody likes that in the middle of a firefight. The "hammered pair with failure to stop" is the preferred method (two quick shots, center mass, with one shot to the head if the target is up). While it is dependent on accuracy, it'll at least keep a well maintained weapon from jamming extensively.

That being said, superior firepower is a tactic used by any an all units to fight out of an ambush. I've been through a few, and it is possible. You don't need a lot of rounds. You just need a well placed team, training and an immediate action plan to get out of the kill zone and get back to your ORP and get set for EER.

"There's no squad either. Squads are for regular infantry made up of roughly 16 men or 4 fireteams with 4 members per fire team." -tduong

Unless something has changed in the few years I've been out, both of these statements are incorrect. SEALs form teams based on mission profile, so they vary in size. As far as regular infantry, it's three fire teams of four men each with a squad leader, making a total of 13 men. Due to personnel issues, most squads were reduced to 10 men while in theater. Again, this can vary depending on the unit mission. I deployed several times with a "squad" of only six of us.

Anyway, enjoy the thread. I think it's been knocked far enough off topic to scare most people off anyway.

Oh yeah: BONUS.

Schilling is my hero.

Tduong is not.

MrFord stated most of his information comes from books, stories, documentaries, etc. in most part based on fact.

I think tduong has watched too much Rambo?
Or he knows what hes talking about and went half retarded from an ied?

http://www.upi.com/...1317445/?spt=hs&or=tn

well with us sending special forces into central africa, them white guys probably stick out, and are easy to pick off.

Btw, if youve seen Navy commercials, some of them do show Seal activity.


Commercial=Recruitment tool

If they showed some seals wearing blue bandanas flashing crypt gangsigns on tv in LA. That would be focusing on the recruitment of minorities.

Oh, 1 more thing. "Seals are not about overwhelming force"

How many helicopters landed or dumped Seals in Osamas compound?

How many troops/seals were put on the ground?

How many Seals made up Seal team 6?

And finally,
How many Seals could a blue Seal Seal if a blue Seal could Seal Seals?

I like reading sometimes.

A former team member said they went through more ammunition then the entire us marine corps

Different nationalitiez so they could blend in during civilian operations around the world.


You can read more, cited quotes and information on seal team 6 wiki

good to go is a great book

Good to go is one of my favorite books of all time

Good to go is what she said before i undressed her.

I'm with Angel. How many of us are white middle class folks who can't apply for grants...or scholarships or alot of programs because we're white and middle class.